tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post269123776417240344..comments2023-12-11T08:10:41.077+00:00Comments on Mark Dredge - Beer: Branding: My Biggest Beer AnnoyanceMark Dredgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-23372252985858737532013-05-20T22:41:36.002+01:002013-05-20T22:41:36.002+01:00Ive had the most delicious beers from the cheesies...Ive had the most delicious beers from the cheesiest labels.when picking a beer i go for the brewer (from previous encounters).And the style,i like pale and very hoppy.the label doesnt matter a jot!But thats just me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08352856766643976516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-51370032213496457712011-07-31T21:06:33.086+01:002011-07-31T21:06:33.086+01:00Ah, che belle le birre artigianiale italiane! One ...Ah, che belle le birre artigianiale italiane! One thing particularly noteworthy about the branding of many Italian craft beers is that it's about the whole package as well as just the label, with a distinctive and customised design for the bottle as well as for the label. But then you're talking about a market that's more than willing to stump up upwards of €10 for a 750ml bottle.Des de Moorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08533475300522834830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-12393634181906658112011-07-30T13:18:12.232+01:002011-07-30T13:18:12.232+01:00I'm a bit of a traditionalist and like the lab...I'm a bit of a traditionalist and like the label designs of Bathams and Donnington the best. I like a simple design, I used to like the old Gadds labels. I am not against puns and joke labels but many seem to say nothing about the beer. I quite like a Merrie Monk or a Slumbering Monk, names that speak of Merry England, and a name like Headbanger or Skull splitter at least tell us something of the beer but "Bucking Fastard!", "Trumpet Trousers!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-44941318139551550722011-07-29T20:13:48.613+01:002011-07-29T20:13:48.613+01:00I quite like the do it yourself approach, it's...I quite like the do it yourself approach, it's almost folkart. I agree there is no need for smutty sexist imagery but the none professional look is quite appealing to me. After all, these ales are a product of a craft industry and their unsophisticated look is part o their charm. The pump clips almost remind me of the decorated trucks and buses of Pakistan, each individual and unique. Yeah have a chuckle if you find them amateurish, but don't dismiss the beer just because of the pump clip, (remember what your school teacher said "you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover") you might miss a corker (Skinners for example). I'm lucky I live near a few great pubs that allow me to try the beers before I buy them. If this ervice is available to you I urge you to sample a few of the ales with badly designed pump clips, you could find a gem.Matt Riddinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05965411036331089078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-16141928493794807742011-07-28T22:01:03.808+01:002011-07-28T22:01:03.808+01:00Val - Interesting to hear from your point of view ...Val - Interesting to hear from your point of view and good on you for refusing to print some! <br /><br />Des - Good points. I think the Cotleigh branding is very professional and of a high quality, it's just a personal taste that it doesn't appeal to me or say anything to me. I don't really like birds, either. All branding is subjective, of course, and I'm sure there are some people out there who find 'Master Bates' funny and order it for joke value, but that's just sad and annoying and it devalues the quality of beers.<br /><br />I'm not a big fan of the branding for either Mendocino or Ballast Point. But then I don't really like much American beer branding. The good looking beers are in Italy and New Zealand at the moment, I think.<br /><br />Phil - I agree, there are some good designs in all of the styles and there are well thought-out designs too. It is very much a personal thing though. I like clean and simple and practical but others prefer something different.Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-91608872548902736112011-07-28T20:00:29.422+01:002011-07-28T20:00:29.422+01:00I think what you've identified is an approach ...I think what you've identified is an approach to labelling that could be summed up as (borrowing from Zak) "typography forward, in the modern style": Marble, Moor, Thornbridge, Kernel, Black Isle, SWB and Otley are all recognisably in the same area. As Des says, this is just one style (or type of style) among others, and I think there are some perfectly good designs in other styles: I've got no objection to Adnam's "stylised local landmarks" or Bateman's "scenes from English history", or for that matter to Cotleigh's aviary! I also like the style of Dark Star & Pictish, variations on an instantly recognisable graphic. (Magic Rock is similar but... different.)<br /><br />Pet hates: most Salamander labels, and especially the appalling bad taste of their "William Tell" (featuring the face of William S. Burroughs). Abbeydale's "Dr Morton" labels are tedious, but at least they're professional-looking and informative; the standard Abbeydale labels are neither. But my answer to the bad label/good beer question has already been mentioned - Magic Rock. I <b>hate</b> those designs - they make me think of art produced by acid casualties and psychotics. (Great beer, though.)Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-44829642941603433522011-07-28T18:53:58.949+01:002011-07-28T18:53:58.949+01:00Thanks for raising yet another fascinating topic, ...Thanks for raising yet another fascinating topic, Mark. This is a matter that very much links to the discussion about "beers for women" last week -- many of the pics on Pump Clip Parade really do speak volumes about the way some brewers still see their market. Marketing images tend to construct an ideal viewer, and we tend to read them in terms of imagining the sort of person they're intended to address. Our attitude to the product will then be shaped by how much we feel we are, or aspire to be, that ideal viewer.<br /><br />All those ghastly "naughty" labels are not only offensively sexist, they also send out a message that these beers are only for tanked up (male) rugby players and sniggering (male) sad cases -- or, by the looks of some of the more extreme examples on PCP, people on the sex offenders' register! What a horrible and limiting message to send out about a drink that everyone should be able to enjoy and appreciate.<br /><br />However when it comes to labels featuring countryside and wildlife I think it's a lot more down to personal taste. All those clean, spare new graphics are just as ideologically loaded in their way, designed to appeal to people who want to feel they can enjoy fine beer and still be hip, urban and cutting edge. But there's a wide audience that associates good beer with natural products, the countryside and rural tradition and no harm in that.<br /><br />The Cotleigh labels are very tastefully done, avoiding embarassing Olde Englande cliché; they very much suit the brewery's highly accomplished but quite traditional beers, its location in a part of the country people visit to appreciate its natural beauty, and its desire to be known for its support of wildlife charities.<br /><br />I also wonder how much of the conservative associations some of us read from "rural/wildlife" labels is coloured by a British persepective? How do you feel, Mark, about Mendocino's branding, which also features birds, or Ballast Point's, which features fish, or the many US beer brands that use geographical features like mountains?Des de Moorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08533475300522834830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-25858141227045642062011-07-28T15:14:35.001+01:002011-07-28T15:14:35.001+01:00We actually manufacture pump clips,we are always a...We actually manufacture pump clips,we are always asking brewers to talk to several designers before they come to us. Some brewers and their designers think the bigger the better, forgetting that there needs to be a space on bar for drinks to be passed through, others think the more garish and offensive the better, others want silk purces out of pigs ears.<br />We have refused to print the ones that had swearing or nudes on.Val Smithhttp://www.ruddmacnamara.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-78300186405343257662011-07-28T05:20:51.607+01:002011-07-28T05:20:51.607+01:00Mark - It's reputation first, for me. For othe...Mark - It's reputation first, for me. For other? I guess it's similar and a recommendation from the bar? Or just a blind guess and hope for the best.<br /><br />Chris - No, it isn't.Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-61009784019839505332011-07-28T00:36:55.694+01:002011-07-28T00:36:55.694+01:00One of the best examples of branding is WEST, a ge...One of the best examples of branding is WEST, a german microbrewery in Glasgow, minimalist and effective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-885864400929874272011-07-27T22:18:22.551+01:002011-07-27T22:18:22.551+01:00Isn't your logo clip-art?Isn't your logo clip-art?Chris Townendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00795203537419347484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-2895866474232562322011-07-27T14:14:29.369+01:002011-07-27T14:14:29.369+01:00Some very good advice on branding from Boak & ...Some very good advice on branding from Boak & Bailey <a href="http://boakandbailey.com/2011/07/27/branding-tips-for-small-breweries/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-40279129612388909332011-07-26T22:47:13.294+01:002011-07-26T22:47:13.294+01:00Agree with most things said, although there are ex...Agree with most things said, although there are exceptions to the rule. Hawkshead's labels seem a little dated and too busy, but the beer is amazing. I'm not a fan of Thornbridge, but can't knock the quality of the ales. <br /><br />The look of the bottle is very important to me as this is what sells it in the deli. This applies to wine and beer. I share your love the clean simple styles of Marble etc. However, if too many breweries kept to this then it would dilute the appeal.<br /><br />As for Northumberland Ales, words defy me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-56247840115096687532011-07-26T21:48:44.573+01:002011-07-26T21:48:44.573+01:00Thanks JJW ! The cows are still next door to the O...Thanks JJW ! The cows are still next door to the Old Dairy Brewery.<br /><br />I quite like the striking simplicity of Otley. Magic Rock looks a cluttered to me though. I'm not sure how if it would work well on a pump clip in a crowded bar. I suppose I need to find a pub serving it now...Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-80963498260498603052011-07-26T21:11:16.496+01:002011-07-26T21:11:16.496+01:00On the scenario that branding doesn't matter, ...On the scenario that branding doesn't matter, it's taste that does, what helps make people's decisions when a beer hasn't been tasted before?Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-38606047389378782472011-07-26T20:42:16.190+01:002011-07-26T20:42:16.190+01:00Nice one for naming and shaming Northumberland Ale...Nice one for naming and shaming Northumberland Ales. nothing but muck.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15686907092077149244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-54718453300743567742011-07-26T20:32:06.094+01:002011-07-26T20:32:06.094+01:00but you know why this happens and the same applies...but you know why this happens and the same applies to online presence or any of the other avenues of promoting/marketing a beer, most of these breweries are just too small as businesses either to feel they can get someone in to do it properly for them (and thats not just a cost thing its also a letting go of some control thing) or just arent capable of doing it properly in-house themselves.<br /><br />hence designs that look literally like collections of clipart on a powerpoint slide, because thats exactly what most of them are.<br /><br />and ok it leads to some distinctly unappealing names & designs, cant say its ever put me off trying a beer [1] but I know from experience its very hard to shift an idea out of someones "vision" for their product, if theyve come up with the design themselves, hence these things kind of get stuck and evolve into whole brands, which arent necessarily the best idea.<br /><br />I mean I dont have a problem personally with beers evoking farm/trains or bird links (presume the objection is thats because of the fuddy duddy beer isnt modern image it presents) because where do you draw the line boats, buildings, people. I think the problem is that too many beers fall into automatically using farm/trains/bird images, when the beer itself has no link or association with the image, and its just a quick default shorthand for beer, which shouldnt be what good design should aspire too.<br /><br />and though I do think the examples of good design youve shown are great examples of what can be done, and i think they look infinitely more appealing, youve got to remember what looks new, fresh and imaginative today, can quickly look old, tired and unappealing in the future, Fat Willy t-shirts were the height of fashion in the 90's.<br /><br />also dont forget hours spent on that all good design, is completely lost when the pub serving the beer just writes them all up on a blackboard and serves the beer direct from a tap room.<br /><br /><br />[1] given a choice Id almost always plump for the better designed image/name over the poorer one, simply because IME the poorer ones come from smaller breweries, who can less reliably turn out consistently good beer, but its never prevented me from trying one.Stonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656315721111561414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-46277502656961107722011-07-26T19:16:40.479+01:002011-07-26T19:16:40.479+01:00The sexist/pun branding I could do without (seems ...The sexist/pun branding I could do without (seems more like something a macro would come up with), but looking at a wall of beer that all consisted of a similar theme to Kernel would be down right depressing. Though I like the fact they include information about the beer (style, abv, when it was brewed (?)), the styling is extremely repetitive. Even a variation in coloring would help. The problem with the exact same styling is remembering which beer one had. <br /><br />If I had a Kernel I didn't enjoy (not that I have, I don't believe they distribute around me) and there is nothing to differentiate their beers from one another, minus a little text, as I stand scanning over beers on a store shelf/bar top, I'd scan over the Kernel beers, wonder if that was the one I didn't like, not risk it and move on to purchase something else. (Granted I would probably remember if I had a porter, and the pale ale was on display, but even then I would probably pass over the Kernel offering, b/c it looked like one I did not enjoy.)<br /><br />This is doubly so when dealing with German beers. Same labels, huge long name... I can never remember what I have had and have not had.<br /><br />Then again, I had no issue with the Owl logo.<br /><br />Mentioning horrible websites... Marble Brewery.davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-21187439651858106482011-07-26T16:34:38.113+01:002011-07-26T16:34:38.113+01:00I was thinking about that after I posted and it...I was thinking about that after I posted and it's the idea of the shield or crest that is so venerable in beer branding. Look at the labels that are included in the last ten or so <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">posts by Ron</a>. There are symbols like the horse shoe, the red rose, the anchor and the harp. They convey meaning within a great design. Look at the <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2011/07/brewing-porter-irish-way-part-two.html" rel="nofollow">Guinness ad</a> on this post - apparently abstract, utterly modern but then you realize you are looking down into a pint of stout. Maybe we need a lexicon of more contemporary subtle brewing symbols - but that isn't that the goal of all great design?<br /><br />I do totally agree you on cheap sexist branding but consider <a href="http://www.unibroue.com/en/beers/ephemere_blackcurrant/product" rel="nofollow">fine discrete but dead sexy branding</a> perhaps a different thing. But I also want a look that is not so designed (Kernel say) that it might be selling organic toothpaste or men's shoes. I think that Guinness ad, by very good luck, captures my point.<br /><br />Alan<br /><a href="http://beerblog.genx40.com/" rel="nofollow">A Good Beer Blog</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-5747525052864019042011-07-26T16:21:05.598+01:002011-07-26T16:21:05.598+01:00Alan - My beef with the owl (poor owl, it is cute ...Alan - My beef with the owl (poor owl, it is cute and most don't agree with me on it) is that it evokes things which don't say much about beer. You might say that Kernel's doesn't, for example, but at least it's modern.<br /><br />Design and fashion always changes, like our taste in it, and I guess that I just like these brands at the moment. If it works in wallpaper magazine then these guys must be doing something right. You won't find anything by Northumberland in there.<br /><br />I'm turned off by branding which evokes boredom or stupidity because I feel it reflects the mentality of the brewery behind it. I want branding which sells it and makes it look interesting. I don't need to see hops or malt on the label to know that it's got it inside the container.<br /><br />What brands would you say are not anonymous in terms of their design but still look good and have good beer inside them?Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-45480113938925042172011-07-26T14:44:30.359+01:002011-07-26T14:44:30.359+01:00Interesting stuff but I find it is very odd that y...Interesting stuff but I find it is very odd that you include the Owl image with the rest and that it is possible for another to state "[s]ame goes for faux rural/industrial/folksy nonsense." Beer is an agricultural product indivisible from its rural foundation, its source. That you are turned off by this can only tell me that you are suffering from an alienation from the means of production, the core Marxist critique, and that you may have an odd sense of the beloved beverage that places too much emphasis on what is outside the container compare to what is in it. As far as I can tell, all your favorite branding is anonymous in terms of design and might as well be selling drinks, ointments, or socks on page 37 of Wallpaper magazine. This is not bad in itself but, unlike beer, it is not about beer much at all.<br /><br />Alan<br /><a href="http://beerblog.genx40.com/" rel="nofollow">A Good Beer Blog</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-16948257003469464612011-07-26T13:27:00.077+01:002011-07-26T13:27:00.077+01:00Brain - That's interesting about Victory. Soun...Brain - That's interesting about Victory. Sounds odd! I hope that's not a US reflection of what cask beer is!<br /><br />Toine - I like Black Isle too. Very clean and simple but still striking. It also tells you all you need to know.<br /><br />Anon - I do think branding makes a difference. Taste ultimately is the most important thing, but would you have selected Moor if it didn't look good? I definitely agree about the lack of info though - that's important. I've been faced with a line of pumpclips before and none have said anything about what the beers are!<br /><br />Jonathan - Very good comments and I 100% agree. I can't add more than that! (Which designs are yours!?)<br /><br />Bailey - Cheddar is an interesting one. Very simple but quite striking. You can tell they put some thought into it (not just the appearance but the detail) and that's the key.<br /><br />Mudgie - There's jumping off the bar into the punter's hand and then there's jumping off the bar and landing flat on the floor! The bottle market is interesting - ok in supermarkets but go to farmers markets and you'll see all sorts of crap!<br /><br />Ghostie - A wall of wine is a daunting thing! There's more creativity and flexibility in beer, it seems, but as you say, it's not all triumphant!Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-21038372426667047502011-07-26T13:06:29.959+01:002011-07-26T13:06:29.959+01:00I don't think the Barn Owl one is as bad as th...I don't think the Barn Owl one is as bad as the others but it's still no 'feat of design'. <br /><br />My problem when it comes to wine, and the labels, is that when I'm looking at the selection - it all looks to similar to me. Like a wall of wine and not knowing where to start. I think most places have started splitting them up into region and variety, and that's great, but for me it's still far too much of a mine field to try to know where to start. Beer labels (and certainly bottles too) will always have much more variety and therefore more scope for design triumphs and design follies.Ghost Drinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753576955816756710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-68428740847922976592011-07-26T12:49:31.095+01:002011-07-26T12:49:31.095+01:00I just plucked that one out of the air without rea...I just plucked that one out of the air without realising it was an actual brewery. However, it seems that three of their range are called Millstream, Run of the Mill and Trouble at the Mill.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8717216232742676074.post-17355926730189565192011-07-26T12:32:15.570+01:002011-07-26T12:32:15.570+01:00Tandleman: Can't find a clip for that online. ...Tandleman: Can't find a clip for that online. Is it another good one?Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09280318504737098116noreply@blogger.com